Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

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Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Xolo on Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:17 am

Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  ILoveInquiry on Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:13 pm

If God is immanent, then God cannot be separate from the burrito, or the microwave, or the heat. Is this a problem?
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:21 pm

Xolo wrote:Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?

First, you have to define what type of "god" you are referring to, as there are many hypothetical versions.

If you are talking about a Judeo-Christian "God," as an athiest, I would say neither as there is no proof for such a thing.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Rombat on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:37 pm

Eclipse wrote:
Xolo wrote:Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?

First, you have to define what type of "god" you are referring to, as there are many hypothetical versions.

If you are talking about a Judeo-Christian "God," as an athiest, I would say neither as there is no proof for such a thing.

But that makes for a lame discussion. Razz

Still we do need to know what type of "god" you are using. As we found out in another thread, it's hard to pin down what god is/can do and I don't really think The Big Bang is going to eat a burrito, which really does change this discussion a lot.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  antwan718 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:44 am

Xolo wrote:Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?

At least give the credit to homer for his famous paradox.

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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Boricua on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:38 am

Eclipse wrote:
Xolo wrote:Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?

First, you have to define what type of "god" you are referring to, as there are many hypothetical versions.

If you are talking about a Judeo-Christian "God," as an athiest, I would say neither as there is no proof for such a thing.

I beg to differ. There is proof of God everywhere, you just have to open your eyes and see it. Everything that you see, example: nature itself, is God's majesty and grace at work.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:44 am

Boricua wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
Xolo wrote:Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?

First, you have to define what type of "god" you are referring to, as there are many hypothetical versions.

If you are talking about a Judeo-Christian "God," as an athiest, I would say neither as there is no proof for such a thing.

I beg to differ. There is proof of God everywhere, you just have to open your eyes and see it. Everything that you see, example: nature itself, is God's majesty and grace at work.

Why does the existance of nature mean they is a "god?" Just because a certain randomness of existance and evolution led to our current world does some magical entity need to be involved? So far you've used nature as a reason for a "god" with out any supporting proof. Without giving any proof or further evidence to support your statement, it more leads to the idea that you are the one keeping your eyes closed to reality and simply following a religious dogma rather than look at the world rationally.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Boricua on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:51 pm

Eclipse wrote:
Boricua wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
Xolo wrote:Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?

First, you have to define what type of "god" you are referring to, as there are many hypothetical versions.

If you are talking about a Judeo-Christian "God," as an athiest, I would say neither as there is no proof for such a thing.

I beg to differ. There is proof of God everywhere, you just have to open your eyes and see it. Everything that you see, example: nature itself, is God's majesty and grace at work.

Why does the existance of nature mean they is a "god?" Just because a certain randomness of existance and evolution led to our current world does some magical entity need to be involved? So far you've used nature as a reason for a "god" with out any supporting proof. Without giving any proof or further evidence to support your statement, it more leads to the idea that you are the one keeping your eyes closed to reality and simply following a religious dogma rather than look at the world rationally.

I look at things rationally, that's how I came to my conclusion. Think about it, how is it possible that nature itself can create something so perfect on its own even through evolution? If there is no God, then that means that everything happened by pure coincidence right? How is that possible? And if this is correct, we have like no purpose in live.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:23 pm

Boricua wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
Boricua wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
Xolo wrote:Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

but then again being all powerful if he can't eat a burrito because it is too hot, is he powerful at all?

First, you have to define what type of "god" you are referring to, as there are many hypothetical versions.

If you are talking about a Judeo-Christian "God," as an athiest, I would say neither as there is no proof for such a thing.

I beg to differ. There is proof of God everywhere, you just have to open your eyes and see it. Everything that you see, example: nature itself, is God's majesty and grace at work.

Why does the existance of nature mean they is a "god?" Just because a certain randomness of existance and evolution led to our current world does some magical entity need to be involved? So far you've used nature as a reason for a "god" with out any supporting proof. Without giving any proof or further evidence to support your statement, it more leads to the idea that you are the one keeping your eyes closed to reality and simply following a religious dogma rather than look at the world rationally.

I look at things rationally, that's how I came to my conclusion. Think about it, how is it possible that nature itself can create something so perfect on its own even through evolution? If there is no God, then that means that everything happened by pure coincidence right? How is that possible? And if this is correct, we have like no purpose in live.

Um, that's the whole reason for natural selection. If you really did look at it from a purely rational prospective, how could you believe in a "god" when there is no reason for one to exist? Evolution and natural selection provide the rational reasons, not that everything was created exactly as it is. For that matter, how old do you think the world is? If you believe the Bible, you go ing the face of history, carbon dating, and fossils. Against such concrete proof, what chance does a book of fiction have?
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Boricua on Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:57 pm

Eclipse wrote:
Um, that's the whole reason for natural selection. If you really did look at it from a purely rational prospective, how could you believe in a "god" when there is no reason for one to exist? Evolution and natural selection provide the rational reasons, not that everything was created exactly as it is. For that matter, how old do you think the world is? If you believe the Bible, you go ing the face of history, carbon dating, and fossils. Against such concrete proof, what chance does a book of fiction have?

Like u said your self, evolution and natural selection provides the rational reasons to believe that everything was not created as is seems. But who is to say that this correct anyways. I mean, natural selections is just a theory, is not even a proven scientific fact. And even if it were "true" science always makes mistakes. All the time.

I personally do not know how old the world is. I do believe in the Bible and facts and science, and do you know that there is a lot of things in the Bible that has been proven true by science? And also think about it. The Bible states in Genesis, that God created the heavens and the earth, right? Now, it says that the earth was in chaos and in darkness right? If God is perfect, which He is, then that means that God cannot create something in this state right? So this means that prior to when God created the earth for us, there was something already made, which is when the dinosaurs lived. So of course the earth is pretty old. And there is a lot more to this, but I don't have time to explain it.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:11 pm

Boricua wrote:Like u said your self, evolution and natural selection provides the rational reasons to believe that everything was not created as is seems. But who is to say that this correct anyways. I mean, natural selections is just a theory, is not even a proven scientific fact. And even if it were "true" science always makes mistakes. All the time.

I personally do not know how old the world is. I do believe in the Bible and facts and science, and do you know that there is a lot of things in the Bible that has been proven true by science? And also think about it. The Bible states in Genesis, that God created the heavens and the earth, right? Now, it says that the earth was in chaos and in darkness right? If God is perfect, which He is, then that means that God cannot create something in this state right? So this means that prior to when God created the earth for us, there was something already made, which is when the dinosaurs lived. So of course the earth is pretty old. And there is a lot more to this, but I don't have time to explain it.

Again, I hate to kill your thought line, but evolution has consistantly proven to be true. Science may make mistakes, but it adapts to new information. that's something religion never does nor can do.

You can't fully believe both fully. The Bible states that the world is, if I recall, 2,000 years old. Now, if you tell that to any reasonable person, they'll laugh you out of the room. But how about some simple questions:

You think "god" is all powerful. Can he create a rock so heavy not even he can move it?

"God" knows all, right? So how can we have free will?
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Boricua on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:06 am

Eclipse wrote:
Again, I hate to kill your thought line, but evolution has consistantly proven to be true. Science may make mistakes, but it adapts to new information. that's something religion never does nor can do.

You can't fully believe both fully. The Bible states that the world is, if I recall, 2,000 years old. Now, if you tell that to any reasonable person, they'll laugh you out of the room. But how about some simple questions:

You think "god" is all powerful. Can he create a rock so heavy not even he can move it?

"God" knows all, right? So how can we have free will?

This prove how little you know about "religion". The Bible doesn't state that the earth is 2,000 years old. The Bible was written within 2,000 years. The earth is way older than that as you and I know. And ya, I would laugh at someone if they said the earth is 2,000 years old.

Regardless how I answer this question to you, either way you will find a loop hole. Trying to understand God, is like trying to put all the earth's oceans into a can of soda, its just impossible.

And ya, we have free will. And God does know what we do prior to when we do it. He knows everything. Whether we decide to do something, or do something else, by free will, He would still know what we do regardless.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:12 am

Boricua wrote:
Eclipse wrote:
Again, I hate to kill your thought line, but evolution has consistantly proven to be true. Science may make mistakes, but it adapts to new information. that's something religion never does nor can do.

You can't fully believe both fully. The Bible states that the world is, if I recall, 2,000 years old. Now, if you tell that to any reasonable person, they'll laugh you out of the room. But how about some simple questions:

You think "god" is all powerful. Can he create a rock so heavy not even he can move it?

"God" knows all, right? So how can we have free will?

This prove how little you know about "religion". The Bible doesn't state that the earth is 2,000 years old. The Bible was written within 2,000 years. The earth is way older than that as you and I know. And ya, I would laugh at someone if they said the earth is 2,000 years old.

Regardless how I answer this question to you, either way you will find a loop hole. Trying to understand God, is like trying to put all the earth's oceans into a can of soda, its just impossible.

And ya, we have free will. And God does know what we do prior to when we do it. He knows everything. Whether we decide to do something, or do something else, by free will, He would still know what we do regardless.

Well, I admit I took that from of a Christian lecture I heard a while back. I guess he wasn't that reliable. After looking it up, the Biblical Age of the Earth <10000 years old, yes?

The reason you say that is it's impossile to do both, yet you think a "god" has that power.

If "god" knows what we all will do, then we don't have free will.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Boricua on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:47 am

Eclipse wrote:

Well, I admit I took that from of a Christian lecture I heard a while back. I guess he wasn't that reliable. After looking it up, the Biblical Age of the Earth <10000 years old, yes?

The reason you say that is it's impossile to do both, yet you think a "god" has that power.

If "god" knows what we all will do, then we don't have free will.

10k? No. The Bible has references of times that could be dated back millions of years. And the interesting thing about it is, how is it possible that people in that era, are able to know these facts, when they didn't have science or the knowledge we have right now.

And no, God is almighty and powerful. He can do as He pleases. But that argument of if He can make a stone so big that He cannot move it, can be the same as "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" or if a tree falls in the middle of the forest..." No matter what the answer is, there is always a loophole that someone ca go through.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:59 am

Boricua wrote:
Eclipse wrote:

Well, I admit I took that from of a Christian lecture I heard a while back. I guess he wasn't that reliable. After looking it up, the Biblical Age of the Earth <10000 years old, yes?

The reason you say that is it's impossile to do both, yet you think a "god" has that power.

If "god" knows what we all will do, then we don't have free will.

10k? No. The Bible has references of times that could be dated back millions of years. And the interesting thing about it is, how is it possible that people in that era, are able to know these facts, when they didn't have science or the knowledge we have right now.

And no, God is almighty and powerful. He can do as He pleases. But that argument of if He can make a stone so big that He cannot move it, can be the same as "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" or if a tree falls in the middle of the forest..." No matter what the answer is, there is always a loophole that someone ca go through.

Then I suggest you Christians get together and come up with a cohesive story that was yet another date I got from a Christian website.

Ah, but there is an answer to those other two questions. Evolution explains the chicken and the egg and there is sound when a tree falls in the forest because sound is merely vibrations in the air and trees need air to exist, hence it makes a sound. The reason there is never an answer to the "god" one is because if he can really make a stone so big he can't move it, he can't move it because he is not all powerful and if he cannot create it he is not all powerful. That's why the idea of such a "god" is illogical.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  ILoveInquiry on Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:26 pm

Logic is a very powerful tool. Human reason is extraordinary. But do logic and reason provide answers to all of life's questions? Aren't some questions beyond logic and reason? For example - this is part of the point of Nagel's article about what it is like to be a bat. Reason has limits. Although science can answer many questions, that does not mean that it can answer all questions - just as humans may be able to 'know' everything there is to know about being a bat but would still be unable to really fathom what bat EXPERIENCE is like. Aren't some aspects of human experience beyond the scope of science and reason? This is not to say that we should set reason aside - rather, it is to say, that at the pinnacle of reason, it is possible that a leap beyond reason is necessary (many excellent thinkers suggest exactly this)... just a thought... And the daoists would say that reason gets in the way of pure experience. And Kierkegaard would say that belief is precisely non-rational - that nobody would be able to 'argue' him into belief and that reason most often gets in the way of belief - that true belief requires a leap of faith. But then Hume would agree with Eclipse...
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:52 pm

ILoveInquiry wrote:Logic is a very powerful tool. Human reason is extraordinary. But do logic and reason provide answers to all of life's questions? Aren't some questions beyond logic and reason? For example - this is part of the point of Nagel's article about what it is like to be a bat. Reason has limits. Although science can answer many questions, that does not mean that it can answer all questions - just as humans may be able to 'know' everything there is to know about being a bat but would still be unable to really fathom what bat EXPERIENCE is like. Aren't some aspects of human experience beyond the scope of science and reason? This is not to say that we should set reason aside - rather, it is to say, that at the pinnacle of reason, it is possible that a leap beyond reason is necessary (many excellent thinkers suggest exactly this)... just a thought... And the daoists would say that reason gets in the way of pure experience. And Kierkegaard would say that belief is precisely non-rational - that nobody would be able to 'argue' him into belief and that reason most often gets in the way of belief - that true belief requires a leap of faith. But then Hume would agree with Eclipse...

I’m trying to limit my comments to let others voice their opinions first, but I just cannot resist this one.

Perhaps not yet, but as time goes on we understand more and more about the universe through science. Just because we don't understand everything, and I doubt we ever will, does that mean that we have to say some areas are off limits to logic and reason?

As for Nagel, who is to say that one day we really will be able to experience what a bat-like experience would be like? We already have virtual reality that mimics reality. Perhaps one day we could mimic a bat experience or even somehow control a bat with our minds. In fact, religion is what has limited much of scientific discoveries. For example, it only took the Vatican 359 years to admit that Galileo was correct and the sun orbits the Earth.

To the Daoists, if reason gets in the way of pure experience, how do you know it's real experience at all? Drugs and diseases can give you all kinds of hallucinations, without analysis you'd just as likely to think it was a message from a "god." There was a time where religion took over and logic was thrown aside, it was called the Dark Ages . . .

As for Kierkegaard, if true belief requires a leap of faith, how do you know that you're not jumping off a bridge? It's science and reason that tell you to look down to make sure you'll survive the fall. It's science that warns you to look before you leap.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  ILoveInquiry on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:32 pm

Ah good... but what's the point of science without the experience? Both are required, and perhaps the greatest experience may be informed by the greatest science. But science can still get in the way. Imagine a person who listens to Beethoven, and all they can imagine are the notes. Now, a powerful mathematical mind may indeed find beauty in the notes, but there is a beauty to the music apart from the notes - something about the experience that is beyond the notes themselves. Imagine a sunset - I've heard a person say "It's just refracted light." That person, I'd say, has a scientific perspective that limits their ability to appreciate the whole experience. However, the person who can see that it is refracted light AND that it is wonderous is at an advantage.
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Re: Could God microwave a burrito so hot that not even he could eat?

Post  Eclipse on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:47 pm

Perhaps, but you need the mathematical notes to create the beautiful music and the refracted light to create the wondrous sunset. That's the key. Whatever sentimental descriptions are placed on something, especially something subjective, it must have a foundation in reality. Reality is supported by scientific concepts and thoughts. Without this basis, how could we reasonably be expected to interact with the world? It's these scientific concepts that tell us what to expect. After all, when we drop an apple, who would think that it would float away?

As for experience in general, do we really have to experience something to fully understand it? I can know, scientifically, exactly what would happen if I were burned alive, but I'd take very little pleasure or a greater understanding of it by actually being set on fire.
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