Do Aliens Really Exist?

**ILoveInquiry** Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:21 am

Are there aliens out there somewhere? Are they hear on earth? Did they play a part in the start of life on earth?

Phoenix Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:37 pm

If Aliens do exist, they probably have as much knowledge of us as we do of them, to be perfectly honest. Unless or government does know, but that's a discussion for a completely different thread.

Gamov Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:52 pm

Well based on what I know of science, space is big. The chances of there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are good; in this galaxy, probably less so. In this galaxy and with the capability to travel space at any practical speed? Doubt it. Unless wormholes or trans-light travel are possible. IDK, all the science fiction stories which talk of such fast exploration have "science so soft you can spread it on a croissant".

I find it hard to believe that any government could hide extraterrestrial contact as well. Leave that to the conspiracy theorists.

Phoenix Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:58 pm

Gamov wrote:Well based on what I know of science, space is big. The chances of there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are good; in this galaxy, probably less so. In this galaxy and with the capability to travel space at any practical speed? Doubt it. Unless wormholes or trans-light travel are possible. IDK, all the science fiction stories which talk of such fast exploration have "science so soft you can spread it on a croissant".

I find it hard to believe that any government could hide extraterrestrial contact as well. Leave that to the conspiracy theorists.

Consider the possibility that other civilizations may have much more sophisticated technology, or better resources to work with. Or maybe not, there could be civilizations who are newer than us.

About the government: I don't find it hard to believe they could have hidden such a profound discovery, but possibly a different kind of animal not found on Earth?

Rombat Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:36 pm

Gamov wrote:Well based on what I know of science, space is big. The chances of there being intelligent life elsewhere in the universe are good; in this galaxy, probably less so. In this galaxy and with the capability to travel space at any practical speed? Doubt it. Unless wormholes or trans-light travel are possible. IDK, all the science fiction stories which talk of such fast exploration have "science so soft you can spread it on a croissant".

I find it hard to believe that any government could hide extraterrestrial contact as well. Leave that to the conspiracy theorists.

Some actually have some quite interesting science that isn't so much a stretch, but much more "we're not quite far enough that trying this stuff would be possible". Those mostly have authors that are Physicists that write or have connections to real Physicists. I will admit that most are "wave hands heres a *insert name for near-magical drive*" but there are a few out that that get close to plausible.

More on topic, I'm sure there are plenty of life forms in the universe off of earth. I think it would be likely that their advancement is tied to their galaxy's distance from the center of the universe (I personally like the big bang theory, and am basing there being a center on this). Ones that were fully in existence before the Milky Way are more likely to have advanced civilizations, ones farther out likely to have less advanced.

wisdominme Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:10 pm

I am not so sure on the existence of aliens, but as a Christian I should
believe that God never created such things, but those crop circles make me question...

Rombat Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:22 pm

wisdominme wrote:I am not so sure on the existence of aliens, but as a Christian I should
believe that God never created such things, but those crop circles make me question...

Why shouldn't you believe he created other beings? You're saying he was happy with just one group? That he couldn't handle more than just one (I doubt this one, it goes against the whole god thing)? That he felt anymore would be a bad decision?

I never really understood the argument that God created only one set of sentient beings in the Universe. I don't see any reason that he'd do this, I've not seen it in scripture (although I'll admit I spent most of Sunday school avoiding paying attention, so it could easily have been missed) saying that he didn't, so why couldn't he have?

wisdominme Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:52 pm

Rombat wrote:
wisdominme wrote:I am not so sure on the existence of aliens, but as a Christian I should
believe that God never created such things, but those crop circles make me question...

Why shouldn't you believe he created other beings? You're saying he was happy with just one group? That he couldn't handle more than just one (I doubt this one, it goes against the whole god thing)? That he felt anymore would be a bad decision?

I never really understood the argument that God created only one set of sentient beings in the Universe. I don't see any reason that he'd do this, I've not seen it in scripture (although I'll admit I spent most of Sunday school avoiding paying attention, so it could easily have been missed) saying that he didn't, so why couldn't he have?

First, we need to agree that we are talking about the same God, God that the Christians believe, as I am one.
Now, if you read the very first book of Genesis in the Bible, it describes what God created in the "beginning" where there was absolutely nothing.
Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
By reading this verse, we know that now there are "heaven and the earth" from absolutely nothing.
These are what God created on each day for 6 days:
1st day- light and darkness Genesis 1:4 - And God saw that the light was good
2nd day- sky
3rd day- the land, the sea, and the vegetation Genesis 1:10- And God saw that it was good
4th day- the sun, the moon, and the stars Genesis 1:18- And God saw that it was good
5th day- animals and birds Genesis 1:21- And God saw that it was good
6th day- Adam or Man or Human Genesis 1:31- And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
7th day- He rested
The underlined subjects from above are what God created. It does not mention any other beings or creatures being created other than those. And to answer your question, "You're saying he was happy with just one group?", actually He was satisfied with what He made since the Bible states that "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Genesis 1:31)

So according to the Bible, any other "beings" other than what He created, indicated above, do not exist, thus aliens do not exist.

Phoenix Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:24 pm

wisdominme wrote:So according to the Bible, any other "beings" other than what He created, indicated above, do not exist, thus aliens do not exist.

Are you using this logic to say that aliens do not exist, or are you using the logic to say that Christians do not believe aliens exist? If I'm assuming your sentence in a grammatically correct manner, you've said that aliens do NOT exist only because the Bible says they don't.

You have to understand that the Old Testament was written well before anyone had any real understanding of the space outside of our atmosphere.

Rombat Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:33 pm

I'm also pretty sure Genesis was set before things like Noah's Ark. So he might have been happy, and things gone sour, and he wanted to try again. Omission is not proof of non-existance. Just because the bible never mentions something, doesn't mean it can't exist (like dinosaur bones, I've not seen them mentioned in the bible, but the reasoning behind them is Satan put them there to trick us, right?) Also, what if God in giving us insight into his workings through the bible just felt we weren't ready for knowledge of other beings?

More interesting though, what if we do find aliens one day? What does that mean for the Christian community?

firey Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:32 pm

wisdominme wrote: if you read the very first book of Genesis in the Bible, it describes what God created in the "beginning" where there was absolutely nothing.
Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
By reading this verse, we know that now there are "heaven and the earth" from absolutely nothing.

Which part does it say that he started with absolutely nothing? Who are we to state that he did in fact begin with nothing? Ive started something from the beginning where there was already something that existed.

Xolo Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:09 am

wisdominme wrote:
Now, if you read the very first book of Genesis in the Bible, it describes what God created in the "beginning" where there was absolutely nothing.
Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
By reading this verse, we know that now there are "heaven and the earth" from absolutely nothing.
These are what God created on each day for 6 days:
1st day- light and darkness Genesis 1:4 - And God saw that the light was good
2nd day- sky
3rd day- the land, the sea, and the vegetation Genesis 1:10- And God saw that it was good
4th day- the sun, the moon, and the stars Genesis 1:18- And God saw that it was good
5th day- animals and birds Genesis 1:21- And God saw that it was good
6th day- Adam or Man or Human Genesis 1:31- And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
7th day- He rested
The underlined subjects from above are what God created. It does not mention any other beings or creatures being created other than those. And to answer your question, "You're saying he was happy with just one group?", actually He was satisfied with what He made since the Bible states that "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Genesis 1:31)

So according to the Bible, any other "beings" other than what He created, indicated above, do not exist, thus aliens do not exist.

LOL I am really laughing hard at the lack of knowledge you have.

"What are some disadvantages of religion" ------> it does not allow you to open your doors to reality.
In other words, all I'm saying is google: "Earth like planets."

Once you have googled that, you will find out that there are many other planets that may be able to sustain life, not only this, but it also proves you and the bible wrong on the point you stated.

And to answer your question, "You're saying he was happy with just one group?", actually He was satisfied with what He made since the Bible states that "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Genesis 1:31)

You are pretty much saying that he created one and only one ocean, one forest, one sky.. and all those in only one planet, our planet "Earth," so then what would you say about the Earth like planets? (who made them?)

and one last thing, if God is so powerful, why did rest on the 7th day??

Rombat Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:20 am

Xolo wrote:and one last thing, if God is so powerful, why did rest on the 7th day??

For funzies Very Happy

mariposa12 Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:14 pm

what about the chupacabra? is that consider an alien? Twisted Evil

wisdominme Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:29 pm

Phoenix wrote:
wisdominme wrote:So according to the Bible, any other "beings" other than what He created, indicated above, do not exist, thus aliens do not exist.

Are you using this logic to say that aliens do not exist, or are you using the logic to say that Christians do not believe aliens exist? If I'm assuming your sentence in a grammatically correct manner, you've said that aliens do NOT exist only because the Bible says they don't.

You have to understand that the Old Testament was written well before anyone had any real understanding of the space outside of our atmosphere.

You can see that I wrote "ACCORDING to the BIBLE", so only considering what the Bible says, other "beings" like aliens don't exist.
It is true that the Old Testament was written well before anyone had any real understanding of the space outside of our atmosphere but it could be also because God never made them, thus never mentioned in the Bible? Just a possibility Very Happy

wisdominme Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:40 pm

Rombat wrote:I'm also pretty sure Genesis was set before things like Noah's Ark. So he might have been happy, and things gone sour, and he wanted to try again. Omission is not proof of non-existance. Just because the bible never mentions something, doesn't mean it can't exist (like dinosaur bones, I've not seen them mentioned in the bible, but the reasoning behind them is Satan put them there to trick us, right?) Also, what if God in giving us insight into his workings through the bible just felt we weren't ready for knowledge of other beings?

More interesting though, what if we do find aliens one day? What does that mean for the Christian community?

1)"So he might have been happy, and when things gone sour, and he wanted to try again"- are you saying that God wanted to try again by creating non-human like figures such as aliens?- provide evidence please!
2)"...like dinosaur bones"- Bible doesn't mention about rabbits, turtles, dogs either because they belong to the group of animal or also refered to "beasts of the land". So dinosaur belongs in that group too.
3)"...felt we weren't ready for knowledge of other beings"- provide evidence please!
4)"What if we do find ailens one day? What does that mean for the Christian community?"- that will be the new discovery for the Christian community as well, and to be honest, I am not so sure how it will be accepted!

wisdominme Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:44 pm

firey wrote:
wisdominme wrote: if you read the very first book of Genesis in the Bible, it describes what God created in the "beginning" where there was absolutely nothing.
Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
By reading this verse, we know that now there are "heaven and the earth" from absolutely nothing.

Which part does it say that he started with absolutely nothing? Who are we to state that he did in fact begin with nothing? Ive started something from the beginning where there was already something that existed.

The word "beginning" in that verse is not the "time" beginning, but rather the beginning of "creation".

wisdominme Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:54 pm

Xolo wrote:
wisdominme wrote:
Now, if you read the very first book of Genesis in the Bible, it describes what God created in the "beginning" where there was absolutely nothing.
Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
By reading this verse, we know that now there are "heaven and the earth" from absolutely nothing.
These are what God created on each day for 6 days:
1st day- light and darkness Genesis 1:4 - And God saw that the light was good
2nd day- sky
3rd day- the land, the sea, and the vegetation Genesis 1:10- And God saw that it was good
4th day- the sun, the moon, and the stars Genesis 1:18- And God saw that it was good
5th day- animals and birds Genesis 1:21- And God saw that it was good
6th day- Adam or Man or Human Genesis 1:31- And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
7th day- He rested
The underlined subjects from above are what God created. It does not mention any other beings or creatures being created other than those. And to answer your question, "You're saying he was happy with just one group?", actually He was satisfied with what He made since the Bible states that "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Genesis 1:31)

So according to the Bible, any other "beings" other than what He created, indicated above, do not exist, thus aliens do not exist.

LOL I am really laughing hard at the lack of knowledge you have.

"What are some disadvantages of religion" ------> it does not allow you to open your doors to reality.
In other words, all I'm saying is google: "Earth like planets."

Once you have googled that, you will find out that there are many other planets that may be able to sustain life, not only this, but it also proves you and the bible wrong on the point you stated.
And to answer your question, "You're saying he was happy with just one group?", actually He was satisfied with what He made since the Bible states that "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Genesis 1:31)
You are pretty much saying that he created one and only one ocean, one forest, one sky.. and all those in only one planet, our planet "Earth," so then what would you say about the Earth like planets? (who made them?)

and one last thing, if God is so powerful, why did rest on the 7th day??

First, you need to stay in intellectual safety. "LOL I am really laughing hard at the lack of knowledge you have."-Comment like this is not acceptable and is offensive. I don't feel the need to reply to a comment that breaks intellectual safety.
If you want to know what my thoughts are on your comment, please re-post your comment without the rude part, and I will be happy to share what I think on your comment! Thanx.

Phoenix Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:14 pm

wisdominme wrote:It is true that the Old Testament was written well before anyone had any real understanding of the space outside of our atmosphere but it could be also because God never made them, thus never mentioned in the Bible? Just a possibility

Are you saying that God didn't make anything outside of Earth's atmosphere? Question

Moving along, in your next post in response to Rombat, you listed a few of his arguments and ended them with:

provide evidence please!

The definition of Burden of Proof: "The burden of proof is the obligation to shift the assumed conclusion away from an oppositional opinion to one's own position."

Pretty much, if you make a claim, it would be illogical to say, "you can't disprove my claim if you have no evidence yourself." The claims and lack of explanation of the physical aspects outside of Earth come from Christians and the Bible. Christians should be the ones explaining these things. Scientists have already given their theories.

Rombat Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:55 pm

wisdominme wrote:
Rombat wrote:I'm also pretty sure Genesis was set before things like Noah's Ark. So he might have been happy, and things gone sour, and he wanted to try again. Omission is not proof of non-existance. Just because the bible never mentions something, doesn't mean it can't exist (like dinosaur bones, I've not seen them mentioned in the bible, but the reasoning behind them is Satan put them there to trick us, right?) Also, what if God in giving us insight into his workings through the bible just felt we weren't ready for knowledge of other beings?

More interesting though, what if we do find aliens one day? What does that mean for the Christian community?

1)"So he might have been happy, and when things gone sour, and he wanted to try again"- are you saying that God wanted to try again by creating non-human like figures such as aliens?- provide evidence please!
2)"...like dinosaur bones"- Bible doesn't mention about rabbits, turtles, dogs either because they belong to the group of animal or also refered to "beasts of the land". So dinosaur belongs in that group too.
3)"...felt we weren't ready for knowledge of other beings"- provide evidence please!
4)"What if we do find ailens one day? What does that mean for the Christian community?"- that will be the new discovery for the Christian community as well, and to be honest, I am not so sure how it will be accepted!

First off, you really didn't need to make three posts. Quote splitting (Quote=>your response=>repeat as needed) is a much more preferable method (at least in the communities I've been in. Quote splitting isn't even that liked, but better than 3 posts right after the other).

Anyways, I don't believe anyone ever defined what the aliens would be. In my mind, anything off planet that is living on their own planet is an alien. They could be *exactly* like humans, in every way shape and form, and still be aliens until one of us integrates the other into a society. So to me, it's entirely possible that God decided after his last few attempts to fix us (like sacrificing his son, or wiping us out with a flood to start us over) he gave up on us, because we're not as perfect as he wanted us to be (proof: Adam and Eve) and started over somewhere else. There IS evidence that we've screwed up in the past, and a very good example is the Noah's Ark ordeal. He was disgusted at what we'd become, wiped us out, and told a small selected group to repopulate the earth. Do you really believe that we're better behaving than when he wiped us out that time? Do you really think he's spent all this time after Jesus absolved us not getting upset with us again? I don't know, but I do know that this falls in your court now. There is proof that he has gotten tired of our antics in the past, so there is no reason to believe he wouldn't again.

Dinosaur bones point: So are you arguing it took him longer than a day per the things he created or that dinosaurs lived with humans? I can almost understand the day not being one of our day response, because he's probably got a really different time table than us. Still, I think the bible only dates the earth to like 6000 BC (I do not remember the exact date) and there is scientific proof that it's been around a bit longer than that, so please, explain dinosaurs to me in a biblical sense more than just "They were with the other beasts" because I don't think they work well with the bible.

Felt we weren't ready point: Please provide proof he felt we WERE ready. This is in your court my friend, because we've discovered things (like the earth rotating around the sun, not the other way around) that I think God would have explained had he felt we could handle it. In fact I think the bible said somewhere we are the center of the universe (and at the very least the Church swore we were), and well, we all know how very very wrong that is. So in all fairness, lets say there is a God, and lets say he did help write the bible through inspiration, I think him feeling we weren't ready is a very good reasoning for it's...let say mistakes. Aliens could easily just be another one of them.

wisdominme Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:31 pm

Thanx for the advise on quote splitting.

Now, it is entirely NOT possible that He gave up on us my friend.
Like you mentioned, by sacrificing his son Jesus Christ, He forgave us.
With that forgiveness, we are eternally saved from sins (<-- which could have made God give up on us.)
But because He did not want to give up on us, He gave us a way to come clean, through Jesus Christ.

For the rest of your comment, to be honest I was kind of lost, but the clear thought I got from it is that
we cannot argue Bible with scientific approach because like you said, it doesn't make sense in science.
If we want to believe in the Bible, we have to believe it without a scientific mind. If we want to completely believe
in everything that science tells us, then we have to believe it without a religious mind.

Religion and Science are two separate things that cannot explain each other.

Phoenix Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:47 pm

wisdominme wrote:Thanx for the advise on quote splitting.

Now, it is entirely NOT possible that He gave up on us my friend.
Like you mentioned, by sacrificing his son Jesus Christ, He forgave us.
With that forgiveness, we are eternally saved from sins (<-- which could have made God give up on us.)
But because He did not want to give up on us, He gave us a way to come clean, through Jesus Christ.

For the rest of your comment, to be honest I was kind of lost, but the clear thought I got from it is that
we cannot argue Bible with scientific approach because like you said, it doesn't make sense in science.
If we want to believe in the Bible, we have to believe it without a scientific mind. If we want to completely believe
in everything that science tells us, then we have to believe it without a religious mind.

Religion and Science are two separate things that cannot explain each other.

You're not answering any of the questions posed to you; you're avoiding main points of the article, and it seems like you're attempting to derail the thread whether you mean to or not. This is not about scientific or religious minds (which is a silly concept, no offense), but about the possibility of intelligent (or not) life outside of the Earth, and how it relates to the religious community.

On the topic of whether or not God exists, there's already a thread for that here.

wisdominme Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:05 pm

My friend,
that's why I said, I am kind of lost!
Why don't you write me another post only with your main points please so that I can understand you more clearly, thus answer your questions. I apologize! afro

Xolo Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:30 am

wisdominme wrote:
Xolo wrote:
wisdominme wrote:
Now, if you read the very first book of Genesis in the Bible, it describes what God created in the "beginning" where there was absolutely nothing.
Genesis 1:1 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
By reading this verse, we know that now there are "heaven and the earth" from absolutely nothing.
These are what God created on each day for 6 days:
1st day- light and darkness Genesis 1:4 - And God saw that the light was good
2nd day- sky
3rd day- the land, the sea, and the vegetation Genesis 1:10- And God saw that it was good
4th day- the sun, the moon, and the stars Genesis 1:18- And God saw that it was good
5th day- animals and birds Genesis 1:21- And God saw that it was good
6th day- Adam or Man or Human Genesis 1:31- And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good.
7th day- He rested
The underlined subjects from above are what God created. It does not mention any other beings or creatures being created other than those. And to answer your question, "You're saying he was happy with just one group?", actually He was satisfied with what He made since the Bible states that "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Genesis 1:31)

So according to the Bible, any other "beings" other than what He created, indicated above, do not exist, thus aliens do not exist.

LOL I am really laughing hard at the lack of knowledge you have.

"What are some disadvantages of religion" ------> it does not allow you to open your doors to reality.
In other words, all I'm saying is google: "Earth like planets."

Once you have googled that, you will find out that there are many other planets that may be able to sustain life, not only this, but it also proves you and the bible wrong on the point you stated.
And to answer your question, "You're saying he was happy with just one group?", actually He was satisfied with what He made since the Bible states that "And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good." (Genesis 1:31)
You are pretty much saying that he created one and only one ocean, one forest, one sky.. and all those in only one planet, our planet "Earth," so then what would you say about the Earth like planets? (who made them?)

and one last thing, if God is so powerful, why did rest on the 7th day??

First, you need to stay in intellectual safety. "LOL I am really laughing hard at the lack of knowledge you have."-Comment like this is not acceptable and is offensive. I don't feel the need to reply to a comment that breaks intellectual safety.
If you want to know what my thoughts are on your comment, please re-post your comment without the rude part, and I will be happy to share what I think on your comment! Thanx.

lol no.. im not reducing myself so I can get answers from anybody.
We either share thoughts/comments or we don't... It's that simple and I'm sorry I have to put it to you that way..

Anyhow, sorry if I sound too rude.

Rombat Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:47 am

Without trying to derail this thread any further, you would be bettering yourself with less offensive words, not reducing yourself.

wisdominme:
I'm not really sure how else to explain this, but I'll give it a shot.

Why do we assume the bible, written mostly ~2000 years ago is, shall we say, up to date? Maybe things have changed, possibly even so drastically as to have caused God to abandon us. Or, less pessimistically, maybe he's seen us as complete, so wants to spread the miracle of life to other Earth-like planets that he set up at the dawn of time simply to one day create life on. I mean, if we're so great, why not spread us around? Again, they could still be made in his likeness, and be exactly like us, just relocated.

The biggest point is that assuming the bible is still 100% correct is probably a bad idea. Lots of things from biblical times have changed. It's reasonable to think that even if all that is said in the bible is true, more life beyond Earth could exist, simply because time has continued. Shutting out aliens because the bible doesn't mention them is like shutting out gravity because it's not mentioned. It (possibly in the case of other life) exists, it just wasn't mentioned because it wasn't important or we weren't ready.

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