Does God Exist?

**Admin** Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:10 pm

Does God exist?

((be sure to see my comment on the top of Page 2 of this discussion)) in response to some exciting back-and-forth below.

Phoenix Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:35 pm

Thousands of years of discussion, philosophy, and logic all summed down to one word:

"Maybe."

Gamov Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:57 pm

Thats why I'm agnostic, Lol. But If I had to create a hypothetical scenario in which I think God would exist, it would be in the events before the creation of the univierse/big bang. God made the universe, with all the rules which govern it, and left it alone.

Phoenix Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:01 pm

Gamov wrote:Thats why I'm agnostic, Lol. But If I had to create a hypothetical scenario in which I think God would exist, it would be in the events before the creation of the univierse/big bang. God made the universe, with all the rules which govern it, and left it alone.

Unless the Christian fundamentalists are right and God does have a way of interfering in day-to-day life via miracles and the such.

I mean, I highly doubt it, but you could use the highly-flawed logic that God created coincidences so he could work through them to perform miracles.

Xolo Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:31 pm

HAAHAHAHA lol

you guys are gonna get so flammed... LOL
no worries tho.. I'll back you up

Phoenix Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:16 pm

Xolo wrote:HAAHAHAHA lol

you guys are gonna get so flammed... LOL
no worries tho.. I'll back you up

No need. My arguments carry sufficient weight on their own without looking for a second opinion to support.

Not that it matters anyway. All arguments come down to whether or not you have faith in a higher power.

angelam420 Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:27 pm

Yes, God exist. But is not the same God that religion wants to show us. That’s why, every body is confuse and does not believe in anything. It is enough to see how beautiful is our world to see that is the same as God

Rombat Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:04 pm

angelam420 wrote:Yes, God exist. But is not the same God that religion wants to show us. That’s why, every body is confuse and does not believe in anything. It is enough to see how beautiful is our world to see that is the same as God

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound mean or anything, but I'm not 100% sure what you are saying with this.

Are you trying to say God exists because of how beautiful everything is, and such beauty would require a higher power, although this power isn't the same as the God that all religions on Earth have introduced us to?

firey Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:26 pm

My feelings are no, God does not exist. All actions, miracles, etc in our life are not preformed by a said god. In my opinion, we are the causes that things happen. Take for example:

Person A driving down the road, no seatbelt, talking on phone.
Person B driving down the road with seatbelt on, radio off, 0 distractions.
Person C is all alchied up.

Person C hits both person A and B same damage is done to both cars, both are critically wounded. However, upon arrival to the hospital Person A is DOA, and Person B Arrives Alive (don't drink and drive). Did God protect person B? or was it Person B Putting on their seat belt, and focussing on the road, etc?

Xolo Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:29 pm

firey wrote:My feelings are no, God does not exist. All actions, miracles, etc in our life are not preformed by a said god. In my opinion, we are the causes that things happen. Take for example:

Person A driving down the road, no seatbelt, talking on phone.
Person B driving down the road with seatbelt on, radio off, 0 distractions.
Person C is all alchied up.

Person C hits both person A and B same damage is done to both cars, both are critically wounded.

Using the same statement and talking about miracles, if person A was to die, but person B was to stay alive, person B would repeatedly say "it's a miracle that Im a alive and that I was wearing my seat belt, or I'd be dead" , while person A could not say anything.. because he is simply dead

So the only reason why person B thinks that it is a miracle is because he knows person A died, and the fact that he is alive is enough to make him think miracles exist.

Boricua Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:27 pm

God does exist. The proof of His existence and of His Glory and Majesty are all around us. But the thing is can we see them?

Take for example; Do you remember of a day when you looked out to the sky, or the moon, or something in nature whatsoever and said "wow, that's truly beautiful"? That my friend is the work of God. How is is possible that nature it self, without no one's help, could have been able to create something so beautiful and perfect as what we see today. Not only the earth, but the universe it self and everything else that we do not know about? Is not that there most, but rather that there is something that made all this. And that something is God.

Lets look at it scientifically.

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God. On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents. (This are some of the laws that God placed in the creation of the world)

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels. Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter. Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously. Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter. In other words, let say that the universe did start with the big bang and that everything that we see to day was made from that. Even if this was true, at the event of the big bang, life could not have been able to be sustained, so how is it possible that life was created from non living matter without something behind it that created it?

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself. Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light." God is light

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable? God is order.

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

All instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billions of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.
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Ok these are just a few facts that show the existence of God. They are simple and easy to understand. The only question is, will you look at it and see at as evidence, or will you keep your mind close and deny what's right before you eyes?

I took the facts from this website "http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html?gclid=CM_JrYqDn50CFRSfnAodyz-s1w"
If you want to look at the whole article go ahead and do so. It's really interesting and helpful.

If there are any questions or comments, do not hesitate to post them. I'm really curious of what you guys will say.

Phoenix Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:50 pm

Boricua wrote:God does exist. The proof of His existence and of His Glory and Majesty are all around us. But the thing is can we see them?

Take for example; Do you remember of a day when you looked out to the sky, or the moon, or something in nature whatsoever and said "wow, that's truly beautiful"? That my friend is the work of God. How is is possible that nature it self, without no one's help, could have been able to create something so beautiful and perfect as what we see today. Not only the earth, but the universe it self and everything else that we do not know about? Is not that there most, but rather that there is something that made all this. And that something is God.

That's not what "proof" means. None of what you described is sufficient evidence on either a scientific standpoint or a philosophical standpoint.

Lets look at it scientifically.

But first consider this. If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Photographs of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.

Once again, evidence is physical and tangible. You can't look at the sky, call it beautiful, then say it's evidence of God's existence. It doesn't work that way. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as the popular saying goes. Beauty is an arbitrary opinion, not evidence.

A person can believe that no one ever walked on the moon, but they would be dead wrong. It doesn't matter what you believe, the only thing that matters is what the truth is. And quite frankly, we haven't discovered this particular truth.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God. On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you." Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

Why have they done that? In the modern world, people generally very impressionable. Any doubt they had about the existence of any kind of God would be shattered with tangible evidence. Why would anyone, or even God, cover up such evidence?

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

Incorrect. The Earth's size has nothing to do with the atmosphere. Mercury has an atmosphere, as well as all the other planets. They just can't sustain human life.

Either way, you could make the argument that humans are only here BECAUSE of the atmosphere, not the other way around.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

I'll use the same argument as above. In Layman's terms, the theory of evolution clearly explains that life forms have adapted to their surroundings. As evolved beings, we have evolved and adapted to the conditions present on Earth.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents. (This are some of the laws that God placed in the creation of the world)

The oceans and gravitational pulls caused by the moon act in a way that they do BECAUSE the moon is there.

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

Once again, evolution and adaptation. It clearly explains why everything happens the way it does.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels. Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water doesn't flow against gravity? Where are you getting your information from? I don't mean to be rude, but you're terribly misinformed. Water flowing against gravity is like saying a human vomiting is flowing against gravity. Knowing the very simple and basic anatomy of plants (which have also evolved and adapted) would give you pretty simple explanations on how it keeps itself alive.

I honestly don't know if I'm able to read the rest of your misinformed observations of how the world works. So I'm moving along to the universe.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang.

Scientists aren't convinced of anything. The Big Bang theory is just that: a theory. A well documented, generally accepted theory, but a theory nonetheless. No credible scientist will make any claim without experimenting using the scientific method. If you can provide a theory as to why something works and explain how it relates to the claim you're trying to make, then you've invented a theory. Not a fact. There is no possible way to determine how the universe has started without inventing a time machine and see for ourselves. But we have our ideas, none of which will become more than a theory unless it happens again, and produces the same results.

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

So you latch on to the idea of God in your admitted ignorance? If you're so skeptical about the idea of the big bang, or any theory as to how the universe was formed, why are you certain of the existence of an all-powerful God?

The rest of these arguments are completely baseless, no facts, no arguments, no logic, no nothing. There is no tangible evidence to provide except for, "Scientists don't know why X works, so it MUST be the work of God," or "Scientists can't prove their theory of X, so I am skeptical, and that MUST be the work of God."

Ok these are just a few facts that show the existence of God. They are simple and easy to understand. The only question is, will you look at it and see at as evidence, or will you keep your mind close and deny what's right before you eyes?

You. Have. No. Evidence. There is no one single piece of credible evidence in any of this post, whatsoever.

(Note: I really apologize for the overall tone of my post, but you must understand my frustration. The one thing I absolutely can not handle mentally is blissful ignorance or blind, unquestioned faith.)

EDIT: Also, when I say "you," "your," or "you're" when responding to the article posted, it's more referring to the author as well as responding to those points. inb4 "I didn't write this.

Rombat Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:58 pm

As was stated, all of your "proof" is that you have no other explanation for it. God used to make apples fall, then Newton observed something was going on, called it gravity and now gravity makes apples fall.

Xolo Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:21 am

Boricua wrote:God does exist. The proof of His existence and of His Glory and Majesty are all around us. But the thing is can we see them?

Lets look at it scientifically.

When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God. On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."

I wonder what Somalian kids have to say about opening their heart to God.. *rolls eyes*

The Earth...its size is perfect. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter. Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible.

Do a google search for: Earth like planets.
Most of them are going to be different size and still are believed to be habitable. Also, some of them are closer and farther from the sun, so your "biblical theory" fails big time.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents. (This are some of the laws that God placed in the creation of the world)

LOL!
our moon can't be the perfect distance because it moves one inch farther from the planet "Earth" every year..

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it.

-It's only tasteless because you drink it everyday!
If you have never tasted water in your life because all you ever drank was coke, and someone was to hand you a glass of water at the age of 50, you would definitely say water had taste.

-Does water have a different taste than Orange?
Yes, therefore water does have taste.

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point.

That's just crap.. that is the most dumbest, most absurd thing ever.

You want to talk about unusual?
get the periodic element of mercury.

Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels. Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

-The more I read your post the more you make me think you are desperate prove your point.
-Water is a "good" solvent, but not "universal" like you state it.
-If water was a universal solvent, we would not be able to store it in containers or even have any body cells. Quite bluntly, if water were a universal solvent, we would not be here.

Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.

-Water vapor is also the main cause of global warming.. lol
-err your "Earthy" system sucks lol
-(and before you guys get smart, yes I know we need the heat of global warming, so the Earth can be hot enough for humans to live in).
- So clouds are good, but not as fascinating as he's statement makes them sound.

The human brain...Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard.

-We can only see what is called "The visible spectrum," any color/thing outside of the visible spectrum we cant see.. and trust me, there are a lot.
-Also, you make it sound like we don't have: Ears, Spinal cord, taste buds, or sensors.. you make it seem like the brain is in every part of out body lol. It is more like an imput and output.

Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant.

No way!! I always knew my brain not letting me see parallel universes and extra dimensions was because they were of unimportant.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light." God is light
The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

The "Big Bang" did not start of the universe, and there is an explanation to the "light" and explosion... there was "stuff" before the "Big Bang," and since you want to talk scientifically, it is called "The string theory," but you can also look up "Singularity."

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

-Hmm.. I always thought there were leap years.. nope, apparently there were not. ^^
-The speed of light does not change, but our perception of it can change.. (this would kind of fit into the "theory of relativity" and since your being cool giving away names then I'll say that is Einstein's theory.

or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."

How do you know they don't..
One day you know what an object is, next day it does not exist anymore, how would you know you that object ever existed?

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."

You seriously are becoming annoying with all these names.. I too can go on Google and find a famous person who has a quote totally opposite to yours.

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program?

^^ Bill Nye
"Bill Nye the science guy"
Does God Exist? Bill-nye-70034

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.

SO WHAT????
I thought you were talking about God..

Why is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell?

Evolution and Adaptation.

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Ok these are just a few facts that show the existence of God. They are simple and easy to understand. The only question is, will you look at it and see at as evidence, or will you keep your mind close and deny what's right before you eyes?

Will you ever open your doors to science and reality or are you always gonna be thinking inside the box/bible?
It's good that you read and believe about your religion, but you have to expand your views and stop being controlled by a book so! much.

If there are any questions or comments, do not hesitate to post them. I'm really curious of what you guys will say.

Rombat Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:37 am

Xolo while I might personally agree with some of your points, you really need to chill out man. There's supposed to be intellectual saftey here, and it's one thing to make a snarky comment or be a little sarcastic, but you're outright calling people stupid. Please restrain yourself a bit. People are going to get heated sure, but you're just being outright mean.

I understand I'm backseat moderating with this, something I normally would never do, but with no idea how often the admin checks individual threads, and with no report method that I know of, I wanted to make sure this was said within a reasonable time frame. I do this publicly because this is a really good example of a post you shouldn't make, so maybe other's can learn from it too.

**Admin** Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:03 pm

Thank you Rombat.
Please remember that intellectual safety comes first in this forum. We are all seeking answers - or - better yet, a space within which we can share, refine and develop our own perspectives while being exposed to the valuable perspectives of others. It's not about who is right or wrong at the end - the point is the inquiry itself and the value we can find in it. So be mindful of the tone of your posts.
This, as we know, is a HOT topic. I know personal feelings run deep here, so frustration can emerge. Let's do our best to responsibly address this hot topic in the spirit of intellectual safety. And again, keep in mind, we are not seeking THE answer - we are asking questions about the questions, seeking clarification, and sharing our views.
If anyone has recommendations on how we can maintain intellectual safety within this touchy topic (and in this particular medium), please feel free to add your recommendations to this on-going conversation. In the meantime, do your best, and keep an eye on one another - we're a developed inquiry community after all.

Eclipse Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:31 pm

My, haven't we killed this topic? Twisted Evil

Any new thoughts?

**ILoveInquiry** Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:19 pm

Ok, so this conversation has taken many turns. Can we try to clarify a part of the question?
What does it mean for something to exist?

Eclipse Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:35 pm

ILoveInquiry wrote:Ok, so this conversation has taken many turns. Can we try to clarify a part of the question?
What does it mean for something to exist?

Well, whenever we describe something that actually exists, it is done by sensorial input and in some way make sense to be real. Taking that into consideration, for something to exist, it must be able to be agreed upon by all reasonable people and be described in terms of sensorial input. At this point, we've covered the physical realm but we still need to cover the mental realm. The consciousness is a system of the brain that is somewhat of an exception to the rule. However, it does not exist independently of the brain, and thus cannot be described as such because it is a part of the collectiveness of the brain itself.

Such notions of souls and “gods,” as the very idea of either existing contradict nature and the physical world and in turn contradict itself. Since everything in nature that is "alive" eventually dies, the soul is nonsense. We are animal and are considered alive, ergo we die. If we die, no part of us continues on forever, ergo no soul.

I need go into less detain with "gods," as the very concept isn't feasible. Such an entity contradicts itself by existing, and thus makes no sense to exist at all.

TheLordismySavior Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:41 pm

i agree w. boricua. how can u look @ nature and not c that as proof of GODS existanse???

if u dnt believe then open ur eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Evil or Very Mad

Eclipse Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:46 pm

TheLordismySavior wrote:i agree w. boricua. how can u look @ nature and not c that as proof of GODS existanse???

if u dnt believe then open ur eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a little overzealous, isn't it?

TheLordismySavior Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:46 pm

whatdoes overzealous, mean??????????????????

Eclipse Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:50 pm

TheLordismySavior wrote:whatdoes overzealous, mean??????????????????

Main Entry: excitable

Part of Speech: adjective

Definition: easily upset or inspired

Synonyms: agitable, alarmable, demonstrative, edgy, emotional, enthusiastic, fidgety, fierce, fiery, galvanic, hasty, high-strung, hot-headed, hot-tempered, hysterical, impatient, impetuous, impulsive, inflammable, intolerant, irascible, mercurial, moody, nervous, neurotic, overzealous, passionate, peevish, quick, quick-tempered, rash, reckless, restless, sensitive, short fused, skittish, susceptible, temperamental, testy, touchy, uncontrolled, uneasy, vehement, violent, volatile, volcanic

TheLordismySavior Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:58 pm

ok lol well i am very exited about GOD as HE is our savior.......every1 should be exited about GOD Cool

Eclipse Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:01 pm

TheLordismySavior wrote:ok lol well i am very exited about GOD as HE is our savior.......every1 should be exited about GOD

What exactly did he save us from, rationality?

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